Podcast: Is it Time to Hire Your First Employee?
Read The Transcript
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Liz Green
Great, so welcome back, everybody. Lisa, you're in the hot seat. So, what we're going to do today is we're going to hone in on one particular subject. Is that okay?
Lisa Lindsey
That is totally fine. Let's do it.
Liz Green
Alright, let's jump right in. So, building a team as an entrepreneur? And I know a lot of us entrepreneurs are really kind of confused, like, when do I hire a contractor? Should I? Do I even have to? And so, you know, so there's all these kind of confusion around this. So, what do you think about speaking more about this in depth today?
Lisa Lindsey
Yeah, I mean, it's right in the general wheelhouse of what I do. Especially when I'm talking to my SCORE clients. It's one of the things that come up a lot where, you know, you're starting to build out this business and you're thinking you need help, and you start to think through. Okay, how do I get the help that I need? And there are so many issues that come up around that. So absolutely. I think that that's lovely. Let's do it.
Liz Green
All right, great. So, before we jump in to the subject, let's talk a little bit about you, and how you started. And like what drew you to this line of work we said to begin with?
Lisa Lindsey
Hmm, that's a really interesting question. I don't know that I can actually say that something specifically drew me. I think like most HR people, I fell into HR. And HR people will tell you that they fell into HR, like, there's very few people I know that actively sought it out. Now. That's the early part of my career. the later part of my career, I actively sought out HR.
So, I was living in Atlanta at the time and I was working as a receptionist and I got laid off from that company and I was looking around for a new job. And I had been a receptionist for two years. And I simply decided that I was not going to take any receptionist job, it was not going to happen. So, what I did was, I refused. I mean, and I was getting called to be a receptionist a lot because I had good experience on my resume. But I refused every single one of those jobs. And finally, this temp agency that I was working with, they called me up and said, “Hey, we have this recruiter coordinator position at the Home Depot. We think you'd be good for why don't you try it out?” And guess what, at the time I was living in Atlanta, I did not have a car. And I needed a car to go to the interview because of where they're located in Atlanta. I know. And I walked out of that interview and drove to a car dealership in bought a car. So anyway, yes, that quick aside because the interview was so good. Like I knew that I was getting it. And of course I did.
And I ended up working at the Home Depot at their corporate offices in the recruiting department for I think I want to say like six months, before I then turned and said to them, “Hey, this is going well, why don't I come on full time,” because I was still working as a temp. And they started the process. Now, here's where it got screwed up for me. Home Depot has a policy, or at least they did at the time, where if they were going to be publishing a position, they didn't hire straight out the they would advertise it internally first. And someone applied for the position internally, and therefore I lost my job.
Liz Green
Oh, no.
Lisa Lindsey I know. Yeah, it's so crazy because I asked because I loved it and I really wanted to stay. So, I asked if I had just simply not asked I probably would have been at Home Depot forever as a temp forever. It would have been no issue because they wouldn't have opened a position. But that's fine. I moved on, right. And I was looking for another job. And I applied to several different kinds of assistant-y type roles, I would say. And I got called for this company as an HR assistant. And I went to the interview. And it was weird because I went, the HR director who was interviewing me, she did not have any time to interview me at that time. She was so upset. And she was so distressed. And I was like, Oh, it's fine. It's cool. If you want me to come back later in the day, I'll come back. So I came back later in the day, she was asking me these questions. It was a style of question called behavioral interviewing, which is something we can talk about, but I never been interviewed like that before.
Liz Green
Really like what like what would be like, example of a question? Yeah. So
Lisa Lindsey
It was like, “Tell me about a time when you had a conflict and how did you resolve it?” Right. So the idea behind that is that past behavior is a predictor of future behavior, and is something that I recommend all the time for anybody who is hiring, that they use this style of questioning to sort of find their candidates, because you really get some very interesting answers. And by the way, I use it a lot. And I've had candidates tell me, I don't like your questions.
Liz Green
Which are a little too personal, right?
Lisa Lindsey
Yeah. Like, well, I don't like you, get out. No, I'm joking. But seriously, I'd never seen that style of questioning before. And she asked me those questions. And I've left thinking, there's no way I'm not getting that job. It's not happening. And then a few days later, I got the job. Yeah, I got the job. It was the first time I was like, fully fully in HR, because the first one was more of a recruiting type role, which is how a lot of people get started in HR anyway. But yeah, I got the job. And I got to tell you, she was a great first HR boss, you know, like, she was fantastic. She was very straightforward. I know that I model my style when I've worked in companies. I've modeled my style after her. Yeah, there are things it's gotta be. I guess I'm gonna date myself. It's more than 20 years now that I've worked with her, and I still remember her vividly and I still remember her style very vividly. So that's probably how I would say it got into it, because I had a great first boss in HR that made me love the work.
And she really gave me a lot of responsibility. I mean, one of the things that happened was about maybe six months into the job, the person who was processing payroll left, because we had a full time person processing payroll, and she asked me to just do it for a little while, until they hired somebody and I started doing it. And I really took to it. And they never gave it to anybody else. They never hired anybody else. But she gave me a lot of responsibility early. And she really like, was a great first boss for a lot of work and a great mentor. So that's thanks for your question. I think that that's what it is. I mean, I don't think I've ever thought about that. But yeah.
Liz Green
Hmm. Interesting. And so and so now, did you end up going back to school or had you already studied? Because, you know, I noticed that your education is that last night like you have? Yeah. So you have a Bachelor of Arts, in Social Sciences with a focus on Organizational Behavior and Change and a Master of Science in Human Resources Management and Development from NYU. And wait, you're certified by both Human Resources Certification Institute (HRCI) and the Society for Human Resources Management. Whoa, that's a that's a pretty impressive there, Lisa.
Lisa Lindsey
Thank you, but not really. Well, the certifications are huge, right? But the reason why I have two is because of some politics that were going on between the organizations because HRCI was doing the certifications for everybody who was a member of SHRM and then they had a split a few years ago and SHRM started offering their own certification. So that's how I ended up with two because with SHRM, they were like, Well, you know, we will grandfather you if you already have this certification, just you know, watch these videos or something like that. And we'll give you the SHRM certification automatically, and I was like, Sure, I'll take it and that's how I that's how I got two.
But to sort of go back to your initial question about school, so here's what when I had that job in Atlanta, I was going to school at night, and when I took over the payroll, it was hard because I had to process payroll on Tuesday. And I had a class on Tuesday nights. And I had late evenings on Tuesdays. So, I ended up dropping that class. I, as a matter of fact, I think I didn't properly drop that class. And because I didn't show up actually got a D in that class. So I stopped going to school at that time, because the job was more important. And I had a job that I loved. And it was taking a lot of time. And I think that that was the beginnings of me becoming a workaholic, to be honest. But really, when I moved back to New York, I had been so successful not going to school. I didn't go to school for I think about 10. More, yeah, about 10 years. I didn't go back to school, I didn't think about going back to school. And then once I'd been back in New York for a while I had a good steady job that I liked at a law firm was making decent money. You know, the job was starting to slow down in ways, and I started to yearn for going back to HR. Because I was kind of doing HR like 75% of my work was HR. In the, in the law firm when I was running that firm. It was, you know, operations work facilities, really taking care of anything that wasn't practicing law. That's what I did. And I was really starting to kind of yearn for it. Not only that lawyers are very, very much sticklers for education. They are seriously snobs about education, and I'm, I know I'm generalizing. But that's my experience, right? So it was starting to feel uncomfortable that I was in this role. Without having an educational background. They have two degrees. So I decided to go back to school so I went back to school 10 years ago, actually, and I went to school for five years. To finish my undergrad and complete my master's.
Liz Green
Geez. Were you working full time simultaneous?
Lisa Lindsey
Honestly, yes, I was working full time?
Liz Green
Whoa.
Lisa Lindsey
Now when you look at my grades right when you look at my grades it's so funny. When you look at my grades there are like two periods one in my undergrad and one in my when I was doing my Masters when you can absolutely tell that I was it was a hellish time for me because my grades reflected it, because I kept really, really great grades. But yeah, I have like two periods on my transcripts that you're like, oh, what happened here? Yeah, it was hell. Especially when I was doing my master’s because one semester, they would tell you all the time, don't do three classes don't do three classes. And I was determined to finish like on a certain schedule. I was determined to finish. So I did three classes. one semester. Oh, mistake. Never do that. mistake.
Liz Green
Wow. That's interesting. That's so interesting, because the client right now is trying to decide if she wants to do three classes or two for her master's, and she's working full time, so it's interesting. So you so you did this and you plowed through you graduated? What would What do that feel like when you finally finished?
Lisa Lindsey
Oh, I celebrated like you wouldn't believe. And I celebrated in two ways. The first way was, I quit the law firms done. Like, I'm never going back to a law firm ever again. And one day we'll get into why that is. But working in a law firm is hard. And lawyers are hard on you. And I have to be honest, I'm really grateful because, there are certain things like that I have right now. The way I format documents the way things look, this sort of high level of attention to detail that was honed through working with lawyers, and I'm grateful for that. And I have legal experience and it makes it easy for me to always go back and work in a law firm because I it's something that you understand it's a very unique thing. I am I am never going back to a law firm. So, I quit and then I went on a nearly a month-long trip to South Africa. Yeah, so that was my celebration. That's how I celebrated myself, celebrated the last five years of hard work that I did, just plowing, plowing along like that.
Liz Green
That sounds like that was a much-needed vacation.
Lisa Lindsey
Oh my god, I cannot tell you and it was so much fun too. It was so good. I loved it.
Liz Green
So then so bring me back to the time when you just said alright, I'm just gonna start my own company called Peale Piper.
Lisa Lindsey
So, starting my own company was had always been my dream. Mind, right. And I never really knew what that would look like. And once I'd finished my master's, it was really just confirming and validation of all the things I already knew. That's kind of how I view my education in a lot of ways that I knew a lot of things. The two pieces of paper just confirmed that I knew these things to other people. Because, I was doing them every day.
So between always wanting to start my own business, as well as my love for HR that I developed, I started kind of toying with the idea of doing trying to build a business on the side. So, I got a job. I was the Director of HR at this company, I was the only person, but I had like a nice title. I had to like to negotiate for it and had this title. And I started working for this company. And I started kind of building the company on the side. So, I was trying to figure out how do I get clients figure out my company name, all that stuff. Right? I did all that stuff. And then finally, in August of that year, I registered my business, I figured out the name. And as soon as I figured out the name, I registered the business.
Liz Green
Wow. And that's something really interesting, Lisa, that you're saying, for a lot of our listeners who, you know, maybe they still have to work, they can't just quit everything and start their own business. I mean, how many people are able to actually do that financially? So what you're saying is you built your business on the side as you were working?
Lisa Lindsey
Well, I'm going to caveat that because yes and no. So yes, that's what I started doing. I started to build it on the side. So, it kind of took care of, you know, the administrative stuff, registering the business, building the name, buying domain names, things like that. And the intention was to in fact, continue to do exactly what you just said. But like I said, a couple of episodes ago I just quit. Like, I got fed up one day and I was like, screw this noise, I'm out.
Liz Green
And I hate my job.
Lisa Lindsey
Right. And they were the ones who came back and said, Hey, you know, they hadn't had an HR person for years and their HR was terrible. And just in the space of time that I was there, I've made so many changes and made so many positive strides. So, they didn't want to revert by, you know, taking a long time to hire someone because it took them a really long time to hire me. So, they didn't want to do that again. So, they asked me to fill in while they did that, and that's actually how the business started. But really, I left with no plan and I was gonna figure it out. I was either gonna go get a job, or I was going to try to see if I could make the consulting thing work, but I left with no plan. Like when I quit, I left I had no plan for how...
Liz Green
That's pretty, that's pretty brave.
Lisa Lindsey
Sure, or stupid? I don't know.
But that's what I did. But you're right. I really did try to start to build the business while I was working and doing it on the weekend and at nights, and I actually did pick up a client during that time, where I was able to work with them during the evening or through email. So, it didn't really take any time away from what I was doing in the daytime. And they weren't paying me a lot. It was just me kind of trying to feel things out. So they were paying me very little. And, you know, so I did get some work, but I didn't like fully build the business before I went to work in the business full time.
Liz Green
Right. So, when were you finally able to hang up your shingle so to speak?
Lisa Lindsey
Well, you know, it's interesting because it happened almost immediately because I had this company that was paying me almost more than I was making full time for the amount of work. I was doing for them. And at the rate that I was charging them, I was getting paid a lot. So, I was able to operate for about a year and a half. Like, I was like a full fledged consulting company. And during that time, I also picked up other clients. Right. So, I was able to pick up other clients as well. And I think I had maybe three or four clients that were consistent and ongoing for a little while.
Liz Green
And was that like a word of mouth kind of thing? or How did you do any marketing? How were you able to get the three or four clients?
Lisa Lindsey
It was really hard and the way that I was able to do that? Well, initially, I used Upwork, which I would not recommend for anybody right now. But
Liz Green
What did you use?
Lisa Lindsey
Upwork. So Upwork is this marketplace for, you know, buyers and sellers, right? Of certain Corporate Services, and it gets used for all kinds of different things. So, there's a HR service that I would kind of try to apply for. And I think I picked up one client from there. And then I also met Rick at the time. And Rick has this HR company and he outsources, he does the selling and the marketing is what Rick does, or at least he did at the time. And then he would get HR consultants to actually go in and be the account manager and do the work for the client.
Liz Green
And those of you who don't know who Lisa's speaking about, this is a guest we had on about a month or two ago, and he spoke to us. Pretty much what would you say he spoke? What would you say he spoke to us about?
Lisa Lindsey
Yeah, it was the middle of COVID. So, we were talking about how you pivot your business and the things that you do and how you take care of your employees as well. So that's what we did that we talked to Rick about, but yeah, that's how I actually met him. And he, we ended up sharing a couple of clients. So that's basically how it started. How I got those clients. So the truth is I really did not do any true marketing on that first go around at all, you know, I did not really build my brand. I did not do any true marketing because those things. I thought I didn't need it right. They came so easy to me. So why bother?
Liz Green
Right, right, right. Yeah. Well, okay, that Wow, that's pretty impressive, because I know that often times, especially a brand-new company, we do have to do marketing. And you know, we're going to talk a little bit more about that aspect later. But I really want to kind of come to our target theme today, which is, so how to speak to us a little bit about like hiring your first employee, or your first contractor and do we have to do that, you know, because I know there's a lot of confusion out there. I was confused. about that when I first started my company, so can you tell me a little bit more about what you think about that aspect?
Lisa Lindsey
Yeah, sure. But before I do that, let me step back a little bit because one of the things that is a big deal for me is talking to companies about making sure that they Get Their HR Right, right. And I remember when we're talking to Matt Mise, in our digital strategies episode, I mentioned that I talk a lot about people getting their HR, right and wanting them to do that before they actually hire their first employee.
Liz Green
Okay, and what does that mean? Get your HR, right.
Lisa Lindsey
Yeah, I'll explain. So the reason why that's like my chosen tagline, right, is because in all the companies that I've worked for, whether I am inside as an employee or outside as a consultant, a lot of times I'm either the first real HR professional that they hire or they somehow get in touch with me, when things have gone really off the rails, like things are bad, they either just got a lawsuit or a letter from the Department of Labor because of an audit, they have a toxic culture. Or they just have significant employee issues, right. Like, that's usually what I saw throughout my career. And I wanted to try to stop that. So, I start, I started thinking, Look, you've got to think about HR before you hire your first employee.
Liz Green
Well, yeah, I mean, not make sense, right? Because when everything's off the rails, and then they're calling you to come on in, like there's, that's a lot of work to kind of go backwards and dig in and find out what all these, you know, untangle the mess, so to speak,
Lisa Lindsey
Hundred percent, that's 100%. And, and really, resolving those issues really just come at a really significant cost. It's expensive to do. It's expensive to hire me. Right, it's expensive to fix the issues. And then it's expensive to put in the infrastructure that's necessary to keep the changes and make sure that the changes stick. And it's a lot of work, right. And that's because a lot of people don't really focus on HR or really thinking about HR as part of their strategy when they're building their business. So that's sort of like my modus operandi. Like, I really want entrepreneurs and people who are building companies to really think about HR as part of their strategy.
I sort of think of an HR professional in the same way that you think about a lawyer and accountant, right. You're not going to start a business without talking to a lawyer or an accountant, you're going to get right in place. So, you want to do the same for your HR because it's so important. It helps you shape your strategy. And if you believe at any point in your business, you're going to need people to help you do things, then you need to have a strategy in mind. And strategy is about your vision, your mission, your values. That's part of it, too. And, you know, somebody who has HR, an HR background can help you to not only define your culture and shape your strategy, but help you get recruiting, right? So you, you know how to hire that first person, because hiring that first person is critical. It's absolutely critical when you start your business, and then they know how to really sort of put the basics in place to help you motivate to make sure you're in compliance, all that stuff. So it's important before you hire, but most people just kind of go and they hire and they wing it.
Liz Green
Right. And why is that? Why do most people not think about hiring an HR person or an HR firm? Or maybe they do think about it, and they decided against it? What's the reasoning behind that?
Lisa Lindsey
You know, I can't speak for everybody, but I think most people think of HR, their experience with HR is very bureaucratic, right? It's a lot about paperwork and those kind of things, and HR for a long time. And I think that tide is shifting a little bit for a long time didn't seem to have any sort of strategic focus, right. And because of that, I think most people sort of think, well, I don't want somebody bogging me down telling me, I can't do this. And I can't do that. I just want to run my business. And I really want to focus on making money. So I'm going to do my sales and marketing. And I'm going to hire somebody to help me. And as long as I have a payroll system in place, I'll be fine. Right? And the answer is, Sure, but not really. Right. So, I think that that's what it comes down to. And then when you're a startup, it's extra money that you're spending on things that you don't think add value.
Liz Green
Right, right.
Lisa Lindsey
So right, so that's how people think about it.
Liz Green
So it's really the cutting is cutting a corner but it's cutting a very important corner.
Lisa Lindsey
It's cutting on I love the way you said that. Yes, it's cutting a very important corner. Because at the end of the day, once you start adding people, if you don't know what you're doing in that regard, then it just it becomes a mess. And here's the thing about HR. Most people think they know what they're doing. Most people think they know how to manage people. Most people think they know how to build a culture. They think they do.
Liz Green
And then they discover that they in fact, don't. So that's and then everything gets tangled up in a mess. And then that's when they call you.
Lisa Lindsey
And then here I come to save the day? Or try to, right.
Liz Green
Right, and then it seems like it would be more expensive at that point.
Lisa Lindsey
It totally is. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It becomes really expensive at that point. But if you spent a couple of grand upfront to really because honestly, that first intervention when you're hiring your first employee, once you put those things into place, you get a handbook, you do all those things. You get that stuff set up, and maybe you spend 5 or 10 thousand dollars to do that, you usually don't need another to see an HR expert again for a while, especially if you've invested in yourself developing your leadership and management skills.
Liz Green
Right. And that doesn't really seem like all that much money when what as an HR professional is offering is, is really, how would you finish that sentence?
Lisa Lindsey
Well, what we're offering is peace of mind down the road, right? Because what happens is things fall out, fall out of compliance, right? And that's usually where I get called in, sort of, I usually get these phone calls that are like, Well, I think I think we're not doing it right, but we're not sure. And I'm like, Okay, let's start with an audit. Or the other call is, oh my God, I've got this employee and they suck and they're terrible and they're draining all my energy and dah dah dah. And it's like, okay, let's, let's figure out how we fix that. You know, it's usually something like that. And then I have to put more time and effort in to doing that than I would have to if we had just had a conversation at the beginning. And we said, okay, we're setting you up. And did I actually have a client like that, that I picked up. I'm actually picked this one up through We Work.
I don't think I mentioned that I picked this one up through We Work. So, I got a membership at We Work and I had an office or a desk that We Work. And they have this internal sort of messaging system. And this client, I was following it. And this this company said, Hey, we think we're gonna hire our first employee, we love to talk to somebody who has HR experience, and people were like pushing them to PEOs and PEOs are sort of like these…They're basically administrative partners that take care of your payroll, and your benefits for you. So, if you're a small company, you can offer like really great benefits, like Fortune 500 type benefits to your employees if you've got one or two because it's really hard to do. on your own if you don't have a PEO, and I literally saw that message a couple of days after he had put the message up and I saw the responses saying, hey, go to Trinet or Hey, go to this company, and they were all PEOs. And I sent a message to the guy saying, “Do not go to a PEO until you talk to me. And I'm like, PEO is not a bad idea. But don't do it until you talk to me. And I'll tell you the pros and cons. And I talked him through the pros and cons him and his partner and they are clients still to this day. I love them. They're amazing. But they hired me before they hired their first employee. So, we got their offer letters in place, we got everything in place. And after we put all that stuff in place, I don't even think they spent 10 grand with me that first go around. Wow. After we put all that stuff into place. We I didn't speak to them for months, months, and then all of a sudden one day they're like, Hey, we think we need some stuff. And that's how it goes with them, like, I will do some stuff for them. And then they're off on their own, because they're good managers. And that's the way it works because they're good managers.
Liz Green
Right, right. And it sounds like you help them out at the very beginning when they were just launching that idea to even start hiring. Right?
Lisa Lindsey
Right. Correct and they had worked with just the two of them on their own for a couple of years. And then they got to the point where they're like, okay, we really need to hire an employee. And here's what's interesting. They had contractors, so they were converting one of their contractors to an employee. And that's what they were doing. So, they were working by themselves had contractors helping with work so they could manage costs a little bit. And then they were converting this person to an employee, and that's when they reached out and that's, that's why I know that they're good client for me, you know, going back to what we're talking about a couple of weeks ago, about every client, not for you. They're one of the clients that I absolutely love working with because they're like me, they think like me. You know, they think about, you know, their thought process was, well, we want to get it right before we do anything, so let's talk to somebody.
Liz Green
And yeah and attitude of I don't know everything just because I'm starting a company and it's my company, I don't know everything. Having that attitude. Exactly.
Lisa Lindsey
Also their lawyers or former lawyers. So here's also that.
Liz Green
We got to be careful, because we're gonna have a couple of lawyers on
Lisa Lindsey
Well, you know what, I love lawyers. I gotta be honest. I have a really good friend who is a lawyer who says, Oh, yeah, you just collect lawyers and therapists. That's all you do. And they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's my friend circle.
Liz Green
Yeah, I mean, my friend circle is I have a lot of therapists on lawyers that are in my friend circle as well. Yeah. I mean, I just love them. Yeah, it depends what kind of what type of lawyer, right? It depends what type of lawyer. Right and so that's, that's for another episode.
Lisa Lindsey
Yeah, we're not gonna paint everybody with a broad brush but I have I have some stories Let me tell you.
Liz Green
Oh, I know I've heard a couple of pretty unbelievable. But okay, so getting back to the question of someone's getting ready to hire their first employee. So, what are some of the things they need to be aware of?
Lisa Lindsey
Yes. So, the first thing is, do you need to hire an employee? Is that that absolute first thing that you need to do?
Liz Green
And how do you know how, like, how do you know?
Lisa Lindsey Right. The way I would define an employee, is somebody who is going to be working full time in your business that you're going to be spending money on, you're paying payroll taxes for this person, right? You know, a lot of times, the way you know that you need help is that the work is overwhelming. So, the type of help you need may vary. Maybe the work that you're doing, you still need to be responsible for the sales and the marketing. But you as a CEO, I always think as a founder or a CEO, whatever you name yourself, you should be responsible for anything that drives the business forward. And you don't hire an employee until you need someone who is going to help you do work that drives the business forward, or help free you up to do the work that allows you to drive the business forward.
And what I mean by that is, you might need to hire a technical higher level employee who's going to be responsible for sales, let's say because sales is one of the first ones I usually find or some sort of client management client success. Those are the two I usually see as the first employee or you need to know admin, right? Because there's you're starting to, you can continue to service your clients, you can either deliver the product or the service, whatever you're doing. But the administrative work is taking up so much time that you need to take an admin, you really have to be careful because it's such a huge step, right? And you really want to sit and think through, do I actually have 40 hours’ worth of work for this person consistently. Consistently. Because at this point, you're paying a full time salary. And even if that salary is $40,000, or $140,000, you want to make sure that you're not just hiring somebody, and you don't have work for them to do consistently. Right?
Because one of the things is, employment is a deep, deep relationship. And with employment, it's like getting married. There's a lot of expectations that come along with it. On the employee side and your side as well as the as the person who's hiring, so you verify. Exactly. so, you really want to think that through just in the same way that you think about who you're marrying.
Lisa Lindsey
I mean, I don't know, I'm assuming you think about who you're marrying.
Liz Green
Sometimes, I mean, the divorce rate as well, like 80% of that.
Lisa Lindsey
Exactly. So, the same way you think about that you really want to think it through and make sure you have a minimum have been enough work for the employee.
Liz Green
Right. So, then what comes to mind is do I hire, you know, a contractor, then at that point in time, somebody who can, you know, come in maybe seasonally?
Lisa Lindsey
Yeah, so Yeah, I agree. So, it's either seasonally or periodically, kind of like I just explained with my client, they call me when they need me, and I just charge them for that work. And we move on, you know, and if they don't need me for a couple of months, that's it, right. So that's what you've got to think about. Once you've determined whether you have enough work, and there is enough work for that person to do, then you can decide what direction you need to go in. And there's many directions you can go and right so you can, you can hire an independent contractor, right? And that's one of the most popular ways of doing it right now. So, you can get access to exceptional talent without having to pay a high salary. Right? Listen, if you tried to hire me as your employee, you're going to be paying a lot of money for that. Okay? Like you just are, right as a full time employee, but you can still get access to my expertise as an HR person, all of my expertise as an HR person, and you don't have to pay that high your price. You just don't.
Liz Green
Right. And, and, and, and what you're saying is you know, you have to know which is going to be more advantageous for your bottom line going forward. I know for myself, you hiring an independent contractor has been something that I've thought a lot about, but seasonally, you know, holiday time wedding time, that kind of thing. You know, hopefully I will get to a point where I can have, you know, a team working and it's year-round. But right now, that's simply not the case.
Lisa Lindsey
Right? Yeah, you're at Holiday Season or wedding season, which is, you know, summer ish, right? Late spring, summer, right? Yeah. So that makes sense. And you can do that. And you could work with the same person all the time. Or you could work with somebody different every single time, right? The issue there becomes training, and getting that person trained, you know, if they don't already know what they're doing, depending on what you're doing. But really with an independent contractor, it's budget friendly, and it's flexible. The working relationship is flexible, as long as you are following the strict IRS rules, which I don't know if we should really get into but IRS has rules about classifying employees as independent contractors. So as long as you know you're not controlling them. Then you can, then you can, you're fine with an independent contractor relationship. And really on the plus side, if you work with an independent contractor for a really long time, though, and the working relationship is successful, that person might turn out to be your first employee, right that you can actually hire and put on payroll, and pay payroll taxes and do all those things.
And that's either independent contractor or freelancer. It could be a vendor, you know. And when I say vendor, I really want to differentiate the line because I think people think of vendors differently. So your vendor is probably more like your lawyer, right? Your most companies are never going to have a full-time lawyer. We never need a full-time lawyer. That's just somebody you kind of call up and say, Hey, someone is suing me or Hey, I need to get some contracts in place. That's more of a vendor when I think about it. So you outsource that kind of work.
Speaking of outsourcing, another thing you want to think about before you actually go down the road of employee is, is this something that I can outsource? So, I think about your accounting functions, you can actually outsource that to an accounting firm and they take care of it always. And you never have to hire an employee. Again, same thing, kind of like a vendor. And then somewhere between contractor and employee, we have temporary employees, right? So temps are not your employee, but they're employees of the temp agency. Right. And that is a road I recommend if you need consistent assistance, but you're not ready to take on the sort of paperwork aspect of having an employee because you get billed as an invoice for the temp and you pay that as an accounts payable payment versus a payroll payment where there are strict rules around right there. strict laws, you cannot miss a payroll. But you might be able to skip a week to pay your vendor. Right, you might be able to pay your vendor later. So that's the thing to think about if cash flow is an issue as well, the flip side of that is you're gonna pay more for a temp, the cost for temp can add up quickly, because you get billed weekly, you're paying an average of 30% more than the actual hourly rate that the temp gets paid. So that can get expensive, but it's also good option, especially if you want to try this out. So you know, I talked about, think thinking through whether you actually have enough work well, if you have a temp, you can figure that out pretty quickly. Because if you don't have enough work, the temp is sitting around on Facebook or that or Twitter or Tik tok, I don't know, whatever they have, but that's a great way to sort of test that out.
Lisa Lindsey
And then another way to do it is interns Of course, you can always try to hire an intern. You got to be careful with that though because you got to pay interns and the minimum wage in New York is $15 an hour ,and they're subject to the same employment laws. So that's something to think about. There are ways that you can have an unpaid internship. But it has to be very, very specific. And it's hard to do. So, I usually just tell people pay the intern.
And then, of course, you know, go to friends and family, there are people who might be willing and able to help you get work done, where you don't have to pay them in that same way. And I know in some instances, if you hire your kids, there's a tax benefit that goes along with that.
Liz Green
Interesting.
Lisa Lindsey
Yes, that's a conversation for an accountant. But I do know that if you hire your children to do certain work for you, you can get a tax break. So yeah, so that's, so that's kind of thinking it through and then a few alternatives that you have before you actually go down the road of employment.
Liz Green
Right. Yeah. Well, that's fantastic, Lisa. Now do you have any There's just so much more to talk about here. Is there a course? Or do you have a webinar or anything like that, that you can steer people towards if they want to know more about this?
Lisa Lindsey
So actually, that's a great question. I love that you asked me that. Thank you. I'm actually putting one together. And I'm thinking I'm going to do my first run of it in September. So if anybody is interested in that webinar, please feel free to go to my website. Send me your name and your email address and I'll let you know when it's ready. And you'll be one of the first people to get an invite. How about that?
Liz Green
Oh, that's great. And so they can either go to bossybrilliantbadass.com right questions@bossy brilliantbadass.com or straight to your website which is pealepiper.com amazing. Wow. Well, this you know, I just looked at the time I thought, Oh, you know, it's regular 40 minutes. And then we have been speaking for an hour longer. Believe it, I could keep going. I mean, there's so much information here. And I know personally, I've learned a lot. Now, is there any other question that you wish I would have asked you about this, Lisa?
Lisa Lindsey
No. I mean, there is more to get into. But you're absolutely right. I think that's a lot. I think the first part about my life story getting here, which I was glad to talk about, um, took up a lot of time, but there's more to get into when so when you get to the point of hiring an employee, there are certain things that you really, really must think about. And that'll all be in the webinar. So we'll hold that for them. How about that or we'll do another podcast another time? Yeah, yeah, definitely. Oh my God. That was awesome.
Liz Green
Yes, it was. That was great. Lisa, thank you so much for being a double bass. So should we
Lisa Lindsey
thank you. That was a fun episode. I hope people enjoy it.
Liz Green
I know I did. Alright, so great. And then next week, I think you're going to be interviewing me. I guess I'll be on the hot seat. Yes,
Lisa Lindsey
Yes, you will. Haha.
Liz Green All right, everybody. So, until next time, be a badass.
